We begin our discussion with the understanding that the universe does exist!!


                                                 The Universe Exists


                                                                 Was there a beginning?


                        No beginning                                                   YES -There was a beginning

                        -impossible since it exists                                                     - True

                                -impossible since everything

                                     in universe has beginning                                

                        -if universe is eternal then it

                                    would have run out of energy

                                     long ago                                                                          



                                                                Was the Universe Caused?                      


                                The Universe wan not Caused                             YES - It was Caused

                                -impossible since everything is caused                          - True



                                                                What was the Cause?


                               A random directionless force              YES -  A Personal Agent

                                Impossible just like:                                                            - True

                                    A) Can shaking the parts of a watch                           

                                         put the watch together?  No.                                   

                                    B) Can a tornado build a house when

                                         it hits a lumber yard? Never.



                                                            What is this Agent like?


                        Limited to Universe                                     YES - Separate from Universe      

                        - This would make the universe                                       - True.   This Creator would be:

                                      self existent                                                                                     1)  intelligent

                         -worship creation or of                                                                      2)  powerful

                                     things in creation is idol worship                                                 3)  timeless

                                -here god is found in  things, nature, animals                               4)  capable of choice                                                                         

                                -many religions make it this far, but fail to                                     5)  immaterial                                                                                            

                                     see the true holy God.                                                                   6)  causeless                                                                              




                        Idol Religions are Illogical                               Three religions have a Logical God:                                  

                           1. Buddhism                                                                                     1. Islam                                                 

                                    2. Hinduism                                                                                      2. Judaism                                                           

                                    3. Ancient Religions                                                                        3. Christianity - the only true and complete revelation from God.